The Kick & Snare Podcast

Is AI a Revolution Like Electricity? Cliff Fluet on Music Rights & What’s Next

Cliff Fluet (partner at Louis Silkin, joint head of Media & Entertainment; Chair of Music Technology UK; founder of Eleven Advisory) joins Michael Nevins to unpack how music, tech, and IP are colliding in the age of AI.
We cover: why MusicTechnology UK focuses on funding + ecosystem building, why Cliff believes AI is a paradigm shift on the scale of electricity, and his core argument: “Copyright isn’t the problem. Licensing is the answer.”
Plus: the case for focusing on outputs vs inputs, the music industry’s data problem, and practical advice for founders and people breaking into music tech.
​Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin): https://www.lewissilkin.com/experts/cliff-fluet
Music Technology UK: https://musictechnology.uk/
Eleven Advisory: https://elevenadvisory.com/
#MusicTech #AI #Copyright #Licensing #MusicIndustry #startups
00:00 - Start
00:23 - Intro: Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin, MusicTech UK, Eleven Advisory)
01:54 - From hi-fi salesman to Warner Music: Cliff’s origin story
04:00 - Warner Music in the CD boom → internet flips the industry
04:47 - New media at Warner: early streaming + disruption
05:51 - The jump to radio: “I’ve got to go on the other side and get some rights from you.”
06:57 - Private practice: advising mobile + early streaming (Pandora → DSPs)
07:58 - Why “legal + strategic” (and founding Eleven Advisory)
09:22 - Building MusicTech UK: the what and the why
12:56 - The #1 problem for music tech startups
16:03 - Community + “space & place”: H.O.M.E. + Tileyard Studios ecosystems
19:48 - Does the UK get enough credit for music innovation?
23:58 - AI as a revolution (not an evolution)
33:47 - AI training data + copyright: can we “unscramble the egg”?
34:23 - Key thesis: “Licensing is the answer” (outputs vs inputs)
38:13 - Flying the plane while building it: contracting in uncertainty
44:13 - The music industry’s biggest blind spot: data
48:16 - Disruption vs curiosity: what founders get wrong
51:56 - Career advice: curiosity wins
54:25 - What Cliff is listening to now
56:23 - Cool tech: Bria & Uhmbrella
57:07 - Closing: “help write music’s next verse.”

Privacy Law, Songwriting, and Collaboration: How Alan Chappell Gets The Mix Right

Michael Nevins welcomes guest Alan Chappell, President of Chappell and Associates, ad tech privacy expert, and multifaceted musician. Alan shares insights into balancing a demanding legal career with his passion for music, discussing his songwriting process, the impact of AI on the creative industry, and experiences working with renowned producers like Jimmy Einer and Jerry Harrison. The conversation explores the evolution of music technology, incorporating personal anecdotes about Alan's musical journey and his perspectives on the integration of creativity and business. Alan also offers advice for aspiring creatives, emphasizing the importance of embracing chaos in the creative process.
​
More about Alan and his music: https://thisischapell.com/
And More about Chappell & Associates: https://thisischapell.com/chapellassociates/

Drummer. Artist. Disruptor. Advocate. How Richard Burgess & A2IM Empower Independent Music

In this episode of The Kick & Snare Podcast, host Michael Nevins talks with Richard James Burgess, President & CEO of A2IM (American Association of Independent Music). They explore what defines “independent,” how A2IM supports its member labels, the challenges of streaming payouts, the battle for fair compensation from platforms like TikTok, and what’s next for music and AI. Richard also shares stories and insights from his varied music career as a drummer, signed artist, producer, artist manager, label exec, and his current role at A2IM. 
Fun facts: Richard coined the term “EDM” (Electronic Dance Music), produced Spandau Ballet, and was an innovator and early adopter in music tech, He contributed to the development of the the first Simmons electronic drum kits and championed the The Fairlight CMI, a ground breaking digital synthesizer, music sampler, and digital audio workstation, This episode is an essential listen for anyone passionate about independent music, digital rights, music tech, and innovation in the music industry.
🌐 Learn more about A2IM: https://a2im.org/
00:00 - Intro: Meet Richard Burgess01:16 - Discussion Outline and Topics03:12 - Understanding A2IM and A Definition of “Independent” in Music05:27 - History and Mission of A2IM and Digital Disruption11:01 - Indies vs Majors: A Complicated Relationship13:25 - Misconceptions About Independent Labels14:31 - The Critical Role of Independent Labels in Music Innovation17:05 - Support and Advocacy for Independent Labels and Artists20:51 - Challenges and Opportunities in the Digital Music Landscape25:08 - The Impact of AI on Independent Music27:45 - Supporting Artist Well-Being Through A2IM Programs30:48 - Health Insurance for Artists34:10 - Reflecting on a Decade at A2IM38:34 - Transitioning Leadership at A2IM41:55 - A Journey Through Music: From Drummer to Producer43:38 - From Drummer to Studio Musician44:40 - From Drummer for Hire to Signed Artist46:29 - Transition to Producing, Including Producing Spandau Ballet47:06 - Coining The Terms “EDM” and “New Romantic Movement”48:24 - Why Drummers Are Often Great Producers49:52 - The Move To Artist Management, Smithsonian Folkways, And How Lead Belly Played A Role50:53 - Getting Involved With A2IM51:20 - Studying at Berklee with Alan Dawson53:45 - Advice for Artists & Labels: Finding Your Audience

Fixing Music Licensing for Cheerleading, Sports & Performing Arts | Chantal Epp | Kick & Snare Podcast

🎙️ In this episode of The Kick and Snare Podcast, Michael Nevins speaks with Chantal Epp, founder and CEO of ClicknClear, a music rights tech company solving licensing issues for choreographed sports like cheerleading, dance, and gymnastics.
Chantal shares her journey from music licensing at a Peter Gabriel startup to becoming a two-time world champion cheerleader and creating a solution to a widespread problem in the sports and performing arts world.
We dive into:
✅ How ClicknClear helps athletes and teams license music legally✅ The unique challenges of music rights for sports routines✅ Building inclusive cheerleading programs & Paralympic initiatives✅ The role of Music Technology UK in supporting founders✅ Challenges facing music tech startups today
🔔 Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of music, technology, and business.
👉 For more on Click n Clear: https://www.clicknclear.com👉 Follow Kick & Snare Podcast: https://kickandsnare.com
00:00 - Introduction to Chantal Epp & ClicknClear03:50 - The Challenge of Music Licensing in Sports05:47 - The Role of Education in Music Licensing07:22 - Chantal’s Journey as a World Champion Cheerleader09:15 - Advocacy for Inclusive Cheerleading And Other Sports15:01 - Navigating Language and Inclusion19:15 - The Importance of Community and Music Technology UK21:04 - Key Challenges Facing Music Tech Startups24:14 - Women in Male-Dominated Industries30:06 - Chantal’s Personal Connection to Music33:17 - The Therapeutic Power of Music
#MusicTech #ChantalEpp #ClicknClear #MusicLicensing #Cheerleading #AdaptiveSports #MusicTechnologyUK #KickAndSnarePodcast #FounderStories
 
 

Katie Debrah on Music, Tech, and Entrepreneurship

In this episode of the Kick & Snare podcast, Michael interviews Katie Debrah, founder of Halo and Echo, a creative advertising consultancy for music, culture, and platforms. Katie shares her journey from YouTuber to marketing professional, recounting her years at Google in product and marketing, as well as her transition to becoming an independent consultant. She discusses her new venture, the HypeMuse app, which is designed to help independent artists focus more on their music than on self-promotion. Katie also discusses her involvement with Music Technology UK and the challenges currently facing music tech startups. Tune in to explore Katie's insights on the evolving relationship between tech and the music industry, her personal experiences, and her exciting new projects.
#AIinMusic #MusicProduction #HypeMuse #MusicTechnology #google
 
🌐 Learn more about Katie Debrah and Halo And Echo: https://www.katiedebrah.com
 
00:00 - Introduction to Kick & Snare Podcast
00:18 - Meet Katie Debrah: Founder of Halo and Echo
00:43 - Katie’s Journey in Marketing and Tech
01:24 - Transition to Entrepreneurship and developing HypeMuse
01:49 - Challenges and Opportunities for Independent Artists
02:33 - Katie’s Experience at Google
04:15 - The Decision to Go Independent
08:31 - Developing Marketing Tech for Artists: More about HypeMuse
21:07 - The Role of Music Tech UK
25:46 - Challenges in Music and Tech Startups
32:30 - Conclusion and Final Thoughts
 

Remixing Mixing: AI Tools for Musicians, with David Ronan of RoEx

🎧 In this episode of The Kick & Snare Podcast, host Michael Nevins sits down with David Ronan, founder and CEO of RoEx, to explore how AI is reshaping music production. RoEx is building powerful, intuitive tools that make high-quality music creation faster, easier, and more accessible, especially for emerging artists and bedroom producers.
We dig into the mission behind RoEx, how user feedback drives smarter design, and what makes their approach to AI in audio production unique. David also shares how Music Technology UK and Innovate UK are helping UK-based startups like his tackle challenges in visibility, funding, and industry trust.
🚀 Highlights include:– How RoEx simplifies music mixing with AI– Why control, privacy, and creativity still matter– The challenges of raising investment in music tech– RoEx’s plans to expand into film & TV post-production
Whether you're a producer, tech enthusiast, or curious about the future of music creation, this conversation delivers.
#AIinMusic #MusicProduction #RoEx #MusicTechnology #AudioInnovation
#kickandsnare

Hazel Savage on Syntho, Music Tech Startups, and the Power of Community

​In this second episode of our Music Technology UK Member Spotlight Series, Michael Nevins speaks with Hazel Savage, CEO of Syntho and a music tech pioneer whose journey spans founding the AI startup Musio (later acquired by SoundCloud). Hazel discusses working across global music companies and now leading one of the UK’s most exciting startups. Hazel opens up about her fast-track return from “retirement,” what makes Syntho different in a world flooded with online music education, and how community insights drive product innovation. They explore themes of gender equity in tech, IP in the age of AI, what makes a startup fundable, and the role of organizations like Music Technology UK in elevating early-stage companies. Whether you're into music, startups, or the business of innovation, this one’s packed with sharp insights and fun stories.​
00:00 - Introduction to Hazel Savage and Syntho
01:50 - Hazel’s Role at Syntho and Rapid Return from Retirement
06:13 - Community Engagement and User Feedback at Syntho
09:16 - Lessons Learned About Demonstrating Value
13:56 - Trust And The Importance of The People Behind The Tech
14:43 - The Challenges of IP in Music Tech
15:57 - The Widening Attitude Gap: Tech vs IP
17:38 - What Sets Syntho Apart in the Market
19:28 - Syntho’s Unique Value Proposition in a Crowded Market
20:41 - Production Value Matters - Does It Scream Professional?
23:37 - Hazel’s Squiggly Career Path in Music & Music Tech
25:22 - Getting Her Start At HMV
25:51 - Early Days At Shazam & Learning to Love Working In Tech
27:39 - Headehunted Out By Universal Music
28:39 - The Importance of Executive Sponsorship to Support Innovation
32:01 - On Being The Only Woman In The Room
35:06 - Music Tech UK and Building Industry Community
38:14 - Startup Investment Challenges in the UK
41:00 - Conclusion and Final Thoughts
🎙️ Subscribe for more candid convos with leaders shaping the future of music and media.
📌 Learn more about Hazel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hazelsavage/
​📌 Learn more about Syntho: https://www.synthohub.com
​​Stay tuned for follow-up conversations with more leaders from a variety of MTUK's membership. 

Episode 8: Beyond the Beat - Gary Jones on Music as Medicine

Can music heal? In this episode, Gary Jones, CEO of MediMusic, joins us to explore how personalized playlists are improving patient outcomes. We dive into the science behind music as medicine, the regulatory roadblocks, and how startups are breaking through industry noise. Plus, hear how Music Technology  UK is supporting UK-based music tech companies.

Episode 7: Matt Cartmell is Cranking Up the Volume on UK Music Tech Innovation

In this episode of The Kick & Snare podcast, host Michael Nevins interviews Matt Carmel, Chief Executive of Music Technology UK. They discuss the mission, goals, and advocacy initiatives of Music Tech UK, as well as the innovations brought forth by its diverse membership. They touch on a range of fascinating topics from AI's role in music creation to immersive live events and music for wellness. They also delve into Matt's career journey, highlighting the convergence of his passions for music, technology, and communications. Tune in to learn more about the vibrant world of music technology and the future it holds!
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:01 Goals for the Episode
01:20 Understanding Music Tech UK's Mission
04:07 Innovative Members of Music Tech UK
10:24 AI in Music Technology
14:32 Success Stories and Member Support
16:56 Upcoming Events and Initiatives
19:32 Advocacy and Policy Efforts
23:41 Matt Carmel's Career Journey
25:16 The Birth of Music Tech UK
25:51 Career Trajectories and Early Beginnings
29:01 Transition to Journalism
29:35 The Changing Landscape of Media and Communications
34:05 Experiences in Trade Associations
37:58 Shoutouts and Influential Figures
43:22 Music Recommendations and Personal Stories
47:05 How to Get Involved with Music Tech UK
 

Episode 6: Navigating Transformational Media: A Conversation with Elana Sofko

Navigating Transformational Media: A Conversation with Elana Sofko
In this episode of Kick and Snare, we sit down with Elana Sofko, the founder and principal of EBS_AF, to discuss her fascinating career history and her current role in her consulting and advisory practice. Elana shares insights into her work at various technological and media inflection points, her early days as an audio engineer, and key moments at Sirius, A&E, Nokia, ESPN, WWE, and Chicken Soup for the Soul Entertainment. She also offers valuable advice for aspiring professionals and delves into gender dynamics in the industry. Tune in for an inspiring conversation filled with wisdom, innovation, and practical advice.
00:00 - Introduction & Welcome to Elana Sofko
01:01 - Elana Sofko’s Current Role and Consulting Practice
02:54 - Elana’s Start in Audio for Live Events
05:25 - Point of Purchase Radio and the Evolution to Digital Audio
09:22 - Seizing the Opportunity: Elana Makes A Bold Move To The Business Side
13:34 - Taking Risks When Opportunity Knocks
14:41 - Pioneering Work At Sirius Satellite Radio
16:39 - Transition to TV
19:55 - Mobile: Innovating In A Traditional Environment
22:47 - Women Leading Innovation
23:55 - Flipping The Script: Building A Global Content Business At Nokia
29:19 - Working Global Markets & Cultures At Nokia
32:06 - ESPN: A Challenge To Motivate Innovation
33:51 - Entering The Ring: Global Expansion at WWE!
38:45 - Becoming COO and Acquiring 9 Companies At Chicken Soup For The Soul
44:13 - Being “The Only Woman In The Room” - How Can Men Be Better Allies?
47:54 - Inspirational People: Who Are They & How Have They Inspired You?
51:39 - Elana’s Words Of Wisdom: The Journey As The Destination
55:12 - Final Thoughts: Elana’s Answers The Critical Questions ;)